Montréal as an innovation hub, poll results (18)
There was a poll 4 days ago, asking montréal tech readers what was Montréal’s best advantage as an innovation center and a permanent place for development. It gathered 58 votes, and here are the results:
- 23% Diversity in Montréal and Montréal’s culture (14 votes)
- 20% The Universities, student population, and R&D (12 votes)
- 20% Cost of Living (12 votes)
- 8% entrepreneurship spirit in Quebec (5 votes)
- 7% The design community (4 votes)
- 7% Avalaibility of tech developers (4 votes)
- 5% government assistance and programs (3 votes)
- 3% avalaibility of angel funding (2 votes)
- 2% avalaiblity of venture capital funding (1 vote)
- 2% presence of successful tech entrepreneurs (1 vote)
- 2% the technological infrastructure (1 vote)
Someone wrote “cheap labour” as an advantage but this was added to cost of living. Other answers include “The fact that Silicon Valley is being decentralized” and “availability of workers fluent in French and English”.
I voted too for the first 2 options. I think Montreal’s multiculturalism is one its biggest advantage. The city is vibrant, not only as a frontier between Anglos and Québecois, but also because it’s one of the main destinations for Europeans, Africans or Latin Americans who want to go to North America. Some of them stay, some go back to their home country, some continue to other places in Québec or in Canada, but they all contribute to Montréal’s multiculturalism. In this case, we get more dynamism and more creativity, which I believe is (still) mostly untapped for technology entrepreneurship.
Montreal also have 4 universities, which are Université de Montréal (with HEC Montréal and Polytechnique), UQAM, McGill University, and Concordia University, and also ÉTS. Montréal has the biggest student population in North America, and has one of the most educated workforces around. Of course, gross number of students doesn’t mean anything if there are no results, so there should be more initiatives in student entrepreneurship and links between higher education and the industry. UQAM can for instance get the so-needed funds from high-tech companies and work together on key reasearch and development, which is how it’s done in MIT and other well-known universities in North America.
Cost of Living received a lot of votes, but I don’t think it can be an advantage for entrepreneurship. In an essay, Paul Graham says that low rent discourages entrepreneurship, as college students and young entrepreneurs will want to purchase an apartment, settle, and get a steady 9 to 5 job instead. A high cost of living forces you to find relentlessly ways to make a better living, aka entrepreneurship.
If you want my personal opinion, I am confident in Montreal. The other options who received a few votes can be improved, and there are also alternative solutions, although one big problem is the mobile access in Canada, which slows and even makes impossible entrepreneurship in some key tech fields (think about developing applications for mobile phones, which is unheard of in Canada)
I have to disagree with you Heri. I think Quebec is one of the worst place in North America to start a business.
Here’s why:
1. Entrepreneurial spirit is almost nowhere to be found. A lot of people on the sidelines, but not so many actually taking action.
2. Most people would rather work a 9-5 job, take home an average salary and not worry too much about the rest.
They are simply not willing to take the risk of lowering their salary in exchange for equity.
3. Lack of rich people. Rich people attract rich people. Rich people make “normal” people want to become successful.
4. Lack of local (and influential) investors (angels and VCs). Since most investors won’t invest in companies located farther that 20 miles from their offices, this is a big problem.
5. Lack of professionals willing to help young startups get started by providing free or to be paid after a first round of investment consultations (ie: lawyers, tax specialists, etc). In Silicon Valley, this is very common and also very helpful.
6. Quebec’s bureaucracy is outrageous. Incorporating a Quebec Inc took me almost 2 months: incorporating in Delaware took me 2 days. (and it’s not the first time I incorporate in Quebec. ie: I know what I’m doing.)
7. (almost) no company will acquire (and much less invest in) a Quebec Inc. or Canada Inc.
A Delaware C Corp is almost a prerequisites for an acquisition nowadays. The amount of paperwork and crap you have to go through as a Quebec resident to own a Delaware Corporation is ridiculous. And I’m not even talking about setting up bank accounts for a Delaware Corp here in Quebec.
7. “The Quebec Jealousy” ™ Did you notice that many see successful people as crooks? It is not well seen to be successful here.
8. No elite school. Say what you will, there’s no Stanford, MIT or Harvard in Quebec. Many successful startup entrepreneurs come straight out of these.
9. We’re isolated from the epicenter. All the important contacts we can never make here are hurting us.
10. The governments don’t understand the needs of startups and their help programs are not appropriate.
Take the R&D tax credit program for example. Quebec and Canada will give you a refundable tax credit (ie: big fat check) for people you employ doing R&D, which I think is great.
However, your check will come in only about 18 months later. The biggest problem for startups is cash flow. How are these startups supposed to stay afloat for 18 months paying a few salaries? Obviously, this only benefits larger companies or company owners with a lot of money.
Moreover, the amount of work required to participate in that program is simply overwhelming and complicated. You absolutely need a consultant to do this job, and these guys will take anywhere between 20% and 35% of your refund.
Of course, these are all generalizations, but I think they are all totally valid arguments.
On the flip side, I find the Montreal community to be extremely friendly and I think the startup scene is slowly improving. But we’re not replacing the Valley anytime soon!
Hi Carl
Thanks for the feedback, it’s very valuable (much food for thought here)
i can’t say much about 1, 2 and 7 (quebec jealousy) as these are cultural, maybe other readers can comment on that.
also, we can’t do much about 6, 7 (quebec inc or canada inc), and 10 because it would need a deep change in how provincial and federal governements work.
however, about 3, 4 5, 9, this is how things are because Montreal or Québec has no previous history of tech valley or technopole. This is a vicious circle, but it only takes a few successful entrepreneurs to prove it otherwise. I think we have to try. I mean I will try. If it really can’t work, It might be a sign to move somewhere else and see how other places are doing.
I didn’t say Montréal was the ideal place for tech entrepreneurship. My point was that I has a lot of potential than it currently has
Even if Montreal became a successful startup city, I doubt much rich people would move here. Rich people like warm weather and nice roads to drive their Porsches around. ;-)
mmm. today i feel it’s like 35 degrees C, i think it’s warm enough :-)
you got a point though with the “nice” roads. but they could buy a Range Rover or a Porsche Cayman instead. :-)
You can’t drive in Montreal! And that’s a good thing.
I’ve had plenty of success hiring from outside Montreal. You bring people here, they fall in love with the city, and they never leave.
It’s a good system.
@carl i think you’ve said a lot of things that needed to be said. while there is a NASCENT entrepreneurial scene in montreal, we must not give ourselves delusions of grandeur - nor should we even expect that the entrepreneurial epicenter of silicon valley is particularly well suited to the culture here. my one quibble with your comment would be the elite school. mcgill, as far as canada goes, is about as elite as it gets. we’re obviously never going to overtake schools like harvard etc, but i think our schools are producing some pretty well-trained minds!
@heri the point is montreal will become more attractive to entrepreneurs once a few big successes are seen to emerge from here. i think those projects are already underway. we just need to patient; i don’t think this is something we can force. also, 5 months of brutal winter far than outweighs a few days of unbearable heat/humidity. ;) carl’s right, montreal weather is an obvious disincentive.
@simon not driving in montreal would be OK if there was a halfway decent public transit system out to the suburbs. also, while hiring people into montreal may not be a problem, that’s not really what’s at issue here. we’re talking about the conditions for entrepreneurship. sure it might be a good city to come and have fun in while making a stable career, we all know that, but that does not mean it’s a great place to start a business and make it thrive.
Mat: great minds come out of McGill, I agree. McGill is a great school.
However, most McGill graduates are usually not entrepreneurs. Everybody I know who came out of McGill took a job in some big company because of the reasons I enumerated above. They did not even consider the possibility of starting or joining a startup. Therefore, I don’t think McGill is of much help for Montreal startups.
That’s true - but this is a SYMPTOM of poor entrepreneurial conditions, not a cause of it.
Have the government make entrepreneurship dead simple. Have more money floating around. Have some big fish in the ecosystem.
… and the bright minds out of McGill and all the other schools here will follow suit.
I agree that it’s symptomatic in part, but I also think it’s genetic, especially among French Canadians.
French Canadians have always been subordinated to “The English”, and that mentality seems to persist.
That may be real. As a transplant here I suppose I just don’t feel that as much as a native might. I wonder if that subordination is felt more acutely out in rural Quebec (where you work) than in Montreal itself though?
@Carl some good points but:
For various of your points, and Mat’s answers, you should specify the web industry and if you don’t, you’re mistaken, there are a number of great success stories and big companies that have come out of Montréal in other areas.
2. The rate of self employed, freelancers and micro enterprises is the highest in Canada, maybe in North America. Where’s the 9@5 there??
6. Took me all of 2 hours to fill out the paperwork, 20 minutes in line to hand it in and I got everything back 2 weeks later.
7. Huh, that’s funny. Talk to the Flickr (to stay web) or to everyone bitching about sooo many Canadian companies getting bought out (although I don’t know their inc. provenance)
7. (the second one) That happens everywhere to a certain degree. Even in Silicon Valley. We might be worse than some but it’s not a binary thing, many many countries have that behavior.
Finally everyone, here and in most cities having the exact same arguments, should stop comparing with SF. Sure, keep a close eye on them, take lessons from there, but it’s like saying you can’t play hockey because you can’t be as good as Crosby, there’s a whole big spectrum of success in between.
@Carl there is a lot of truth to what you say but as Patrick says above, most issues are not unique to Montreal.
And to carry on with the Hockey metaphors - the more you practice, train and play with other good players the better you get - but it also requires a lot of determination and time.
Having committed team mates alongside you really helps - and having lived in many cities and country’s around the world I really think that Montreal’s tech entrepreneurs have a team spirit as strong as anywhere.
hey mat, i am questionning McGill status as an elite school. I agree it has a (well-deserved) status in medecine, but apart from that, i believe HEC Montréal is better than McGill’s business school and Polytechnique is better than McGill’s engineering program. I say this because I went to HEC Montréal, and also heard the personal conclusions of a student who went through McGill’s MBA program.
as an entrepreneur, you should be ready to question the status-quo.
also, good weather sounds great… in theory. Sophia-Antipolis, France’s silicon valley, is in the Cote d’Azur. I lived there, but one thing is for sure: people go there because there are so many tech and biotech companies, not because of the good weather. For me, it’s like saying Ibiza or Cancun would be a great place for tech entrepreneurship because there many sand beaches and comfortable hotels.
I agree a lot with what Patrick and John are saying. Everyone knows it’s harder for startups here than in Silicon Valley. But it’s improving. And for me, as I wrote in the post, I believe has a lot of untapped potential.
@patrick - yes this discussion is evidently geared toward web startups, given that’s the world we operate in.
but i do think benchmarking against SF is valid in this context. if we’re going to ask the question “is montreal a hub for innovation?” it would be ludicrous to avoid comparing ourselves (for better or worse) to the place in the world that is arguably the epicentre. of course we will come up short in many regards, but that’s exactly the point.
@heri - go down to NYC, or london or paris, or boston and ask someone to name you the best school in Canada, and I would bet that 90% of the people will tell you mcgill. i would be absolutely shocked if anybody in the english speaking world has ever heard of UdeM. mcgill’s greatest strength is in its marketing, and it has incredible brand recognition internationally. that alone attracts top quality minds, educators and research money. as for the quality of the education, i think it’s uniformly crappy across the board. but then again - you don’t go to university to learn anything in the classroom, right?
@heri - about the weather. i would say that a nice climate is a necessary but not sufficient conditions to attracting and retaining the wealthy. and given that wealth is a lubricant to innovation that is sorely lacking here, it’s an important point to consider. we spend a lot of time laughing off the shitty winters here in montreal, but don’t kid yourself — this is a real deterrent.
“to the place in the world that is arguably the epicentre. of course we will come up short in many regards, but that’s exactly the point.”
Yep. As long as the “come up short” point is viewed as chance for improvement, not as automatic suckage which a lot of posts and comments often seem to say.
Hehehehehe.
“a hobby inventor walks into a show-and-tell event filled with fellow hobby inventors and says “hey everyone! I’ve invented an echo chamber! you wanna buy in?!”"
I am cruel. I know.
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