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	<title>Comments on: Scheme/Lisp, one of Montreal&#8217;s tech expertise</title>
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	<link>http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/</link>
	<description>Technology and Innovation news in Montreal</description>
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		<title>By: Tristan Wolhok</title>
		<link>http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-914205</link>
		<dc:creator>Tristan Wolhok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 09:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-914205</guid>
		<description>Whoa! Photograph seeking yahoo and google all day in this and i also lastly think it is here!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='eg-image' style='float:right; margin-left:7px; display:block; width:48px' ><a rel='external nofollow' href='http://suworlddiscovery.info/forum/'><img alt='' src='http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/1d12f9ef39c66205cc0e57e51135be76?s=48&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fmontrealtechwatch.com%2Fimages%2Fsmall_gravatar.jpg%3Fs%3D48&amp;r=G' class='avatar avatar-48 photo' height='48' width='48' /></a></span>Whoa! Photograph seeking yahoo and google all day in this and i also lastly think it is here!</p>
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		<title>By: bielizna nocna</title>
		<link>http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-913411</link>
		<dc:creator>bielizna nocna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 04:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-913411</guid>
		<description>Super journal! I really enjoy how it is unproblematic on my eyes and likewise the data are well written. I am questioning how I might be informed whenever a newborn record has been made. I have subscribed to your rss feed which must do the trick! TX again!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='eg-image' style='float:right; margin-left:7px; display:block; width:48px' ><a rel='external nofollow' href='http://o-nk.pl/sklepy,internetowe/ekskluzywna,bielizna,s,2379/'><img alt='' src='http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/c37e673bad66192ca6325dead690ff7f?s=48&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fmontrealtechwatch.com%2Fimages%2Fsmall_gravatar.jpg%3Fs%3D48&amp;r=G' class='avatar avatar-48 photo' height='48' width='48' /></a></span>Super journal! I really enjoy how it is unproblematic on my eyes and likewise the data are well written. I am questioning how I might be informed whenever a newborn record has been made. I have subscribed to your rss feed which must do the trick! TX again!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: `(,@valvallow)</title>
		<link>http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-457339</link>
		<dc:creator>`(,@valvallow)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 05:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-457339</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Scheme/Lisp, one of Montreal ’ s tech expertise
http://bit.ly/nx404
 *Tw[Eee]*&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Scheme/Lisp, one of Montreal ’ s tech expertise<br />
<a href="http://bit.ly/nx404" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/nx404</a><br />
 *Tw[Eee]*</span></span></span></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Scheme for the novice and beyond, Thursday March 27th &#124; Montreal Tech Watch</title>
		<link>http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-19995</link>
		<dc:creator>Scheme for the novice and beyond, Thursday March 27th &#124; Montreal Tech Watch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-19995</guid>
		<description>[...] Dominique Boucher wrote previously a great article on MontrealTechWatch about Scheme/Lisp in Montreal. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dominique Boucher wrote previously a great article on MontrealTechWatch about Scheme/Lisp in Montreal. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scheme/Lisp User Group meetings in Montreal &#124; Montreal Tech Watch</title>
		<link>http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-2240</link>
		<dc:creator>Scheme/Lisp User Group meetings in Montreal &#124; Montreal Tech Watch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-2240</guid>
		<description>[...] Boucher, who wrote previously an article about Scheme/Lisp on Montreal Tech Watch, has a report about last week&#8217;s developer [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Boucher, who wrote previously an article about Scheme/Lisp on Montreal Tech Watch, has a report about last week&#8217;s developer [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ruby Rocks! -- à la Francois Montagne &#124; Montreal Tech Watch</title>
		<link>http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-1471</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruby Rocks! -- à la Francois Montagne &#124; Montreal Tech Watch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-1471</guid>
		<description>[...] you are interested in programming languages, you might also check out the article about Scheme/Lisp, featured one month ago on Montreal Tech [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you are interested in programming languages, you might also check out the article about Scheme/Lisp, featured one month ago on Montreal Tech [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dominique Boucher</title>
		<link>http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-566</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominique Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-566</guid>
		<description>Evan: I have to agree with most of your concerns. But let me address specific issues:

2. Even in a large standardized language like Common Lisp, many important things are missing: sockets, threads, and many more. And I don&#039;t think R6RS will alleviate this problem that much. It does not address access to basic OS stuff: directories, sockets, etc. (Perl, Ruby and Python are different. They all rely on a benevolent dictator that imposes its view on the rest of the world. Just consider each Scheme impementation as a different language.)

3. Perl, Python, Ruby may have a lot of libraries, but they are not of equal quality. Also, if you decide to use a specific Scheme system, you will certainly have access to lots of libraries (Chicken has over 300 eggs - libraries). I am pragmatic guy. When I write Scheme code, I usually stick to a single implementation. (Why always target all Scheme systems anyway? I don&#039;t have time to do that ;-) If you want your code to be as portable as possible, isolate the dependencies in specific modules.

4. I&#039;m not sure this one is true. This may be true of some implementers, mainly those from academia, but all the Schemers I know would love to have more libraries. 

Want to discuss these issues further? Join us at the next meeting of the MSLUG ;-) We will have one at the end of August.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='eg-image' style='float:right; margin-left:7px; display:block; width:48px' ><a rel='external nofollow' href='http://theschemeway.blogspot.com/'><img alt='' src='http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/a0834622166089423c3ebb7e5bbada88?s=48&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fmontrealtechwatch.com%2Fimages%2Fsmall_gravatar.jpg%3Fs%3D48&amp;r=G' class='avatar avatar-48 photo' height='48' width='48' /></a></span>Evan: I have to agree with most of your concerns. But let me address specific issues:</p>
<p>2. Even in a large standardized language like Common Lisp, many important things are missing: sockets, threads, and many more. And I don&#8217;t think R6RS will alleviate this problem that much. It does not address access to basic OS stuff: directories, sockets, etc. (Perl, Ruby and Python are different. They all rely on a benevolent dictator that imposes its view on the rest of the world. Just consider each Scheme impementation as a different language.)</p>
<p>3. Perl, Python, Ruby may have a lot of libraries, but they are not of equal quality. Also, if you decide to use a specific Scheme system, you will certainly have access to lots of libraries (Chicken has over 300 eggs &#8211; libraries). I am pragmatic guy. When I write Scheme code, I usually stick to a single implementation. (Why always target all Scheme systems anyway? I don&#8217;t have time to do that ;-) If you want your code to be as portable as possible, isolate the dependencies in specific modules.</p>
<p>4. I&#8217;m not sure this one is true. This may be true of some implementers, mainly those from academia, but all the Schemers I know would love to have more libraries. </p>
<p>Want to discuss these issues further? Join us at the next meeting of the MSLUG ;-) We will have one at the end of August.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Prodromou</title>
		<link>http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-561</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Prodromou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-561</guid>
		<description>Wow! This is a great article, and I&#039;m glad to see it here. I&#039;m a big fan of Scheme, and it&#039;s my go-to language for any new development I do. It is a lovely, pleasant, clever language to write code in.

It is with this spirit of deep devotion to Scheme that I reluctantly talk about some of Scheme&#039;s _weaknesses_ as a development environment. Some that come to mind immediately:

1. A dizzying array of different Open Source and proprietary Scheme compilers and interpreters. I think it&#039;s fair to say that none of them have really captured a majority of Scheme hackers. Scheme is a remarkably easy language to implement, which is a positive and negative thing.

2. Lack of some key features in the language specification (libraries, sockets, database access come to mind immediately) has meant that language implementers make up their own interfaces for these features. This makes it difficult to write portable libraries. Note that the SRFI effort (http://srfi.schemers.org/) and upcoming revision of the language (http://www.r6rs.org/) will alleviate this problem to some extent.

3. A lack of portable libraries for common development tasks. It&#039;s worthwhile comparing single-implementation languages like Perl, Python, and Ruby. While there are tens of thousands of Perl modules on CPAN (http://www.cpan.org/) that will work on practically any Perl system, and hundreds if not thousands of Python and Ruby libraries in their respective repositories, the number of portable Scheme libraries available for download is probably in the low dozens, to be generous. This makes writing new Scheme applications a bit of a pain. The SNOW Project (http://snow.iro.umontreal.ca/), hosted here in Montreal, is helping a lot with this.

4. A general perception among Scheme hackers that these aren&#039;t important issues. Fewer portable libraries, after all, means *I* get to write MORE SCHEME. Yay! There&#039;s also rivalry between communities around different Scheme applications -- doing things that are good for the _entire_ Scheme community is less attractive than doing things to promote Gambit, Chicken, Bigloo, Guile, Gauche, PLT, dot dot dot.

I don&#039;t think Scheme is going away any time soon, but I wish that the fractured community could build things together better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='eg-image' style='float:right; margin-left:7px; display:block; width:48px' ><a rel='external nofollow' href='http://evan.prodromou.name/rss1'><img alt='' src='http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/a6c78795a177d5fb2e7d25b43c625cde?s=48&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fmontrealtechwatch.com%2Fimages%2Fsmall_gravatar.jpg%3Fs%3D48&amp;r=G' class='avatar avatar-48 photo' height='48' width='48' /></a></span>Wow! This is a great article, and I&#8217;m glad to see it here. I&#8217;m a big fan of Scheme, and it&#8217;s my go-to language for any new development I do. It is a lovely, pleasant, clever language to write code in.</p>
<p>It is with this spirit of deep devotion to Scheme that I reluctantly talk about some of Scheme&#8217;s _weaknesses_ as a development environment. Some that come to mind immediately:</p>
<p>1. A dizzying array of different Open Source and proprietary Scheme compilers and interpreters. I think it&#8217;s fair to say that none of them have really captured a majority of Scheme hackers. Scheme is a remarkably easy language to implement, which is a positive and negative thing.</p>
<p>2. Lack of some key features in the language specification (libraries, sockets, database access come to mind immediately) has meant that language implementers make up their own interfaces for these features. This makes it difficult to write portable libraries. Note that the SRFI effort (<a href="http://srfi.schemers.org/" rel="nofollow">http://srfi.schemers.org/</a>) and upcoming revision of the language (<a href="http://www.r6rs.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.r6rs.org/</a>) will alleviate this problem to some extent.</p>
<p>3. A lack of portable libraries for common development tasks. It&#8217;s worthwhile comparing single-implementation languages like Perl, Python, and Ruby. While there are tens of thousands of Perl modules on CPAN (<a href="http://www.cpan.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cpan.org/</a>) that will work on practically any Perl system, and hundreds if not thousands of Python and Ruby libraries in their respective repositories, the number of portable Scheme libraries available for download is probably in the low dozens, to be generous. This makes writing new Scheme applications a bit of a pain. The SNOW Project (<a href="http://snow.iro.umontreal.ca/" rel="nofollow">http://snow.iro.umontreal.ca/</a>), hosted here in Montreal, is helping a lot with this.</p>
<p>4. A general perception among Scheme hackers that these aren&#8217;t important issues. Fewer portable libraries, after all, means *I* get to write MORE SCHEME. Yay! There&#8217;s also rivalry between communities around different Scheme applications &#8212; doing things that are good for the _entire_ Scheme community is less attractive than doing things to promote Gambit, Chicken, Bigloo, Guile, Gauche, PLT, dot dot dot.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Scheme is going away any time soon, but I wish that the fractured community could build things together better.</p>
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		<title>By: Dominique Boucher</title>
		<link>http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-559</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominique Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-559</guid>
		<description>I just received an email from Dick Gabriel, the chair of the OOPSLA conference, telling me that John McCarthy will be in Montreal for a keynote at OOPSLA 2007 (the biggest conference on object-oriented programming) on Wednesday at 13:30, Oct 24. If there is enough interest, they could make some arrangements for the Scheme/Lisp community. So let me know if your are interested in attending the keynote (or the conference).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='eg-image' style='float:right; margin-left:7px; display:block; width:48px' ><a rel='external nofollow' href='http://theschemeway.blogspot.com/'><img alt='' src='http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/a0834622166089423c3ebb7e5bbada88?s=48&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fmontrealtechwatch.com%2Fimages%2Fsmall_gravatar.jpg%3Fs%3D48&amp;r=G' class='avatar avatar-48 photo' height='48' width='48' /></a></span>I just received an email from Dick Gabriel, the chair of the OOPSLA conference, telling me that John McCarthy will be in Montreal for a keynote at OOPSLA 2007 (the biggest conference on object-oriented programming) on Wednesday at 13:30, Oct 24. If there is enough interest, they could make some arrangements for the Scheme/Lisp community. So let me know if your are interested in attending the keynote (or the conference).</p>
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		<title>By: Dominique Boucher</title>
		<link>http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-532</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominique Boucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://montrealtechwatch.com/2007/07/11/schemelisp-one-of-montreals-tech-expertise/#comment-532</guid>
		<description>Heri: I can certainly give a demo at the next barcamp (BarCampCanada, I guess).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='eg-image' style='float:right; margin-left:7px; display:block; width:48px' ><a rel='external nofollow' href='http://theschemeway.blogspot.com/'><img alt='' src='http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/a0834622166089423c3ebb7e5bbada88?s=48&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fmontrealtechwatch.com%2Fimages%2Fsmall_gravatar.jpg%3Fs%3D48&amp;r=G' class='avatar avatar-48 photo' height='48' width='48' /></a></span>Heri: I can certainly give a demo at the next barcamp (BarCampCanada, I guess).</p>
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